WilmerHale Partner Robert S. Mueller III, who served as Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigations during the administrations of Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama, gave a rare interview in which he discussed his formative life experiences and his legal career in public service and private practice.
The interview was the premier episode in season four of the MSNBC podcast called The Oath with Chuck Rosenberg.
In Part 1 of the interview, Mr. Mueller discusses his childhood, parents, siblings, and schooling.
He also recalls his time in combat in Vietnam as a Marine Corps officer when he was a young husband and father who worried about what would become of his family if he did not survive the war.
He describes one especially close call when he and his Marines came under rifle fire from a North Vietnamese Army soldier, and he was shot. The overarching story of Mr. Mueller’s time in Vietnam is about his service as a lieutenant leading a rifle platoon. “Your first thought, thanks to the Marine Corps, is your men,” and how to keep them safe, Mr. Mueller said during the interview.
Mr. Mueller recalls how he didn’t even realize he was wounded until another Marine pointed out Mr. Mueller’s injured thigh. After being bandaged, he was medevaced by helicopter. He recalls thinking during the trip how fortunate he was; he was hit but alive. Maybe he would go to a hospital ship and at least get a decent meal.
“And so, I'm sitting there thinking this and then we land at Dong Ha. And I come to find out in the next day or so that it wasn't that bad, it had been a through-and-through, and I'm not going to any hospital ship. As it happened, I heal. And within three weeks, I was back in the bush.”
Toward the end of Part 1, Mr. Mueller discusses his time as a federal prosecutor and Department of Justice official and some of his thinking when President Bush in 2001 asked him to take charge of the FBI.
Mr. Mueller: I did want to be back in government.
Mr. Rosenberg: You wanted to serve again?
Mr. Mueller: I wanted to serve again. And I'd always wanted to be in the FBI in one way or another. I didn't think I'd be in this position. But so it was.
From there, Mr. Mueller went on to serve 12 years as director, his initial 10-year term and an additional two years at President Obama’s request and Congress’ approval, making him the director whose tenure in terms of length is second only to J. Edgar Hoover’s.
In Part 2 of the rare interview, Mr. Mueller completes his discussion of his career, including his FBI tenure, which started a week before the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and his changes to the famed law enforcement agency. Those changed reoriented its institutional mindset more toward the pre-emptive efforts required by counterterrorism to prevent future terrorist attacks and away from the reactive approach traditionally used in crime-fighting.
In the episode, the former FBI director and special counsel recalls memorable moments and challenges from his lengthy career. Mr. Mueller discusses the somewhat awkward time his cell phone rang during his Oval Office job interview for the FBI director’s position with President George W. Bush; it was his wife wanting to know how the interview went. It apparently went well because the president nominated his despite the cell phone incident, he notes.
He also recalls his first briefing of President Bush after the 9/11 attacks, a meeting that clarified the need for the FBI to shift itself into more of a counterterrorism mindset in addition to being a crime-fighting agency.
Mr. Mueller also shares his view on the importance of public service: “…I’ve come to believe that it really does not matter which way you choose to serve. And the only thing that we ask is that you work for your country, for your community. Each person must determine in what way they can best serve others in a way that will leave them believing that their time has been time well spent.”
As Mr. Rosenberg indicates in introducing the conversation, Mr. Mueller is not known for giving interviews. “Bob is a man of few words,” Mr. Rosenberg said. “And so, each of his words matters a lot. And when he speaks, which is not often, it is worth listening. This interview with Bob Mueller is the only full one he has given since leaving public life. And it may be the only full one he gives. [I]t's worth listening to what he has to say.”
Listen to part 1 and part 2 of the podcast or read the transcript from part 1 and part 2.